Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search pcHDTV Forum Index
pcHDTV Forum

pcHDTV Forum Index -> General pcHDTV topics -> Cable HDTV
Post new topic  This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. View previous topic :: View next topic 
Cable HDTV
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 2:03 pm Reply with quote
Guest
 




Are there any plans to make a card that supports cable HDTV signals?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 5:16 am Reply with quote
Guest
 




This is getting close to a year old and still no answer?

I really do not want to plunk down $200 for something that is literally up in the air. Could I be wrong in thinking that terrestrial HDTV will go the way of terrestrial SDTV (who actually uses a TV anntena since the early 80s)? Is the HDTV terrestrial signal so strong that you will never need cable (or satellite) HDTV? Will terrestrial HDTV offer all of the channels (pay, premium, sheer quantity)?

I'm not trying to be anti-terrestrial, just a newbie trying to see the light (all of the lights).

Any information much appreciated.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:58 pm Reply with quote
pfile
 
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 80




apparently in one market (somewhere in the southwest, i cant remember), there is at least one company broadcasting "premium" channels over the air for a fee. so it isnt only cable companies that are offering pay/premium channels.

in the SF bay area, Comcast's rollout of HD has been less than spectacular. set top boxes that don't work, too much compression, many installations with problems, etc.

of course, we are just at the beginning of HD/ATSC so who knows what will happen.



Anonymous wrote:
This is getting close to a year old and still no answer?

I really do not want to plunk down $200 for something that is literally up in the air. Could I be wrong in thinking that terrestrial HDTV will go the way of terrestrial SDTV (who actually uses a TV anntena since the early 80s)? Is the HDTV terrestrial signal so strong that you will never need cable (or satellite) HDTV? Will terrestrial HDTV offer all of the channels (pay, premium, sheer quantity)?

I'm not trying to be anti-terrestrial, just a newbie trying to see the light (all of the lights).

Any information much appreciated.
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:44 pm Reply with quote
Scott Larson
 
Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 713
Location: Portland, OR




It's probably too risky to make a board that works with cable unless it accepts a cable card. People have been experimenting with the Fusion card which is compatible with QAM but has no decryption abilities. They've found that some cable companies send perfectly readable QAM signals while others have found that all channels, even channels you can get free OTA, are totally encrypted. The cable card would let you decrypt these so you wouldn't have to worry about the cable company changing their policies.

It will be hard for me to watch anything in HDTV without being able to save it as an MPEG stream someplace. This has been very handy in many ways.
View user's profile Send private message
reason for digital cable
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 3:05 pm Reply with quote
inkling
 
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 342




It wasn't for image size. If you've ever seen the speckling effect in digital cable, you know it wasn't for image clarity, either, at least not clarity of old source material. HDTV grade material looks good on cable, but not any better than well tuned over-the-air ATSC.

The Japanse have been using analog HDTV for years, though the clarity might not be quite as sharp as digital, even over cable. I couldn't find any actual quality comparisons, though.

So that leaves labor-saving and anti-theft as reasons, ignoring for the moment the FCC mandate to have everyone on HDTV.

The cable co's wanted the ability to flip a switch instead of send a man out to enable or disable any or all channels. This makes it easier for accounts receivables, too, since non-payment is a switch-flip instead of sending out a man and a truck to physically disconnect you.

I am just guessing here, but to cut down on cable theft, it seems likely that large digital cable providers will be sending scramled channels for everything. They want to keep set-top box mfgrs in biz, and keep the little video card mfgrs out of the digital stream.

In my area, Warner digital cable is broadcasting only about 8 HDTV grade channels, and they're missing at least one popular local HDTV station in their channel line up.

Not a very compelling reason to spend 50/mo.
I get more over the air, and spend 50 bux elsewhere.

Digital cable, for me, would only be useful for broadband internet connectivity. SciFi channel isn't HDTV but instead speckly NTSC grade source material, as are most digital cable channels.

I agree with you, Scott. What's the point of ATSC at all, if you can't do your own instant-replays or skip commercials?

To me, Advanced Television means more control, for me.

just my $0.02.
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:26 am Reply with quote
Scott Larson
 
Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 713
Location: Portland, OR




Well a little counter-point of my argument. Digital cable is just a ten bucks more than bad analog cable in my area and since they're already getting fifty bucks from me, it's not that much of an increase. I'd get a few more channels, mostly bad ones. I only watch cable maybe five times a month and I've gone months without watching anything on cable (Netflix makes sure there's always something better around). However missing certain cable sports would kill me.

The main advantage that digital cable once had was much better picture quality from local channels due to no interference from the local station's signal. I'm three miles from the towers and that made two stations unwatchable on cable. Now that I'm watching locals on DTV, cable gets me nothing.

Upgrading to digital cable would get me four HDTV channels that I don't get OTA. That's not a lot but it's signficant with only five OTA HDTV channels. Of course my computer couldn't touch these channels without a QAM card (word is that these channels aren't encrypted in my area -- yet) but at least I'd be watching them.

Thanks to trees and a large concrete building, satellite is not an option for me! Sad
View user's profile Send private message
Video Input Adapters
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:03 am Reply with quote
kzj890
Guest
 




Has anyone ever consider using Vidoe Input Adapters to convert "component" HDTV signal to firewire?
I just found this product:
http://www.adstech.com/products/API-752/specifications/api752spec.asp?pid=API-752
Seems to be able to convert component signal to firewire output for a merely $150 street price.

You can use the best analog signal you can get (better then s-video) from any possible HDTV source, but I don't know how good the conversion quality is going to be, but looks like a possible solution for the cable/sattlites box cases.
Re: Video Input Adapters
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:16 am Reply with quote
pdicamillo
 
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 68
Location: Needham, MA




kzj890 wrote:
Has anyone ever consider using Vidoe Input Adapters to convert "component" HDTV signal to firewire?
I just found this product:
http://www.adstech.com/products/API-752/specifications/api752spec.asp?pid=API-752
Seems to be able to convert component signal to firewire output for a merely $150 street price.

You can use the best analog signal you can get (better then s-video) from any possible HDTV source, but I don't know how good the conversion quality is going to be, but looks like a possible solution for the cable/sattlites box cases.


As far as I can tell, this device has no support for HDTV. It's capture resolution is 720 x 480, which is normal for standard (not HD) video over FireWire. I suspect it wouldn't work if you used the component inputs for HDTV. But if it did work, it would have to adjust the aspect ratio, and all the extra resolution of HDTV would be lost.
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
sports is a compelling reason for cable
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:08 pm Reply with quote
inkling
 
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 342




I got my HD2000 just before the Superbowl.

With NTSC OTA was nearly pointless, for me.

I couldn't see the ball, much less figure out who made the play. Between snow and herringbone, I was lucky to figure out which teams were playing, even with the titles at the top.

First thing I noticed with HDTV was, hey, I can see the ball.
Second thing I noticed was, hey, I can read the numbers!
Third thing I noticed was, hey, I can read the names!

Since I wasn't capturing at the time, just piping getatsc to xine,
I didn't get to say, hey, I can do my own replay!

Looking forward to start of regular season NFL.

Step aside Mr. Madden. Let me show you how a replay is done.

So there is some compelling reason for cable HD.

I figure they'll scramble them all, sooner rather than later, under pressure from the media guilds. That's why I think there isn't much point in getting a cable HD card now, only to be locked out later, once the grip of the media guilds become strangulatory.

Satellites might be more interesting, but they'll close the holes in those too, eventually.

Yep, I'm a cynic.
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 4:19 pm Reply with quote
Scott Larson
 
Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 713
Location: Portland, OR




The first thing I noticed with HDTV is that my local stations had been broadcasting it for years and no one I knew had any idea it even existed. So many people, high tech people even, are horribly misinformed. The worst case...

I cringed when I heard a coworker bragging about a huge expensive NTSC set he had bought. I asked if he had considered buying an HDTV set. He thought that they're only good for watching DVD's -- HDTV broadcasting won't happen until the 22nd century. He thought that widescreen DVD's were the only thing in HDTV these days.

I asked him if he had seen the "In HDTV where available" banners on TV shows. He sure had seen them, but since the shows weren't letterboxed, he assumed that meant that HDTV wasn't available here.

"No it's in HDTV on a different channel. NBC-HD is UHF channel 46 here. KGW broadcasts it right over the air for free." I told him I could pick it up with a bow-tie antenna, yes just like the one that came with his TV set.

The next day he told me he saw the "In HDTV where available" banner at the beginning of "Law and Order" last evening, so he quickly hooked up the UHF bow-tie antenna and tuned his big new TV set to channel 46. He was expecting to see a letterboxed version of "Law and Order" but didn't see anything at all. Obviously HDTV isn't available here. Probably won't be for a long time. He's happy with his big TV set and the black bars don't bother him at all when he watches his high definition DVD's.

OK I don't want to talk about this any more... Sad
View user's profile Send private message
Re: Video Input Adapters
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:46 am Reply with quote
kzj890
 
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 2




pdicamillo wrote:
kzj890 wrote:
Has anyone ever consider using Vidoe Input Adapters to convert "component" HDTV signal to firewire?
I just found this product:
http://www.adstech.com/products/API-752/specifications/api752spec.asp?pid=API-752
Seems to be able to convert component signal to firewire output for a merely $150 street price.

You can use the best analog signal you can get (better then s-video) from any possible HDTV source, but I don't know how good the conversion quality is going to be, but looks like a possible solution for the cable/sattlites box cases.


As far as I can tell, this device has no support for HDTV. It's capture resolution is 720 x 480, which is normal for standard (not HD) video over FireWire. I suspect it wouldn't work if you used the component inputs for HDTV. But if it did work, it would have to adjust the aspect ratio, and all the extra resolution of HDTV would be lost.


Just for viewing purpose, HD video pass-through is possible, MyHD has an option to use a DVI daughter card to display DVI input signal, but it can't record it, too much information to process or something. Besides, DVI could be copy protected.

The reason to use component/RGB/VGA signal as the input, in my view, is because it's the highest possible analog signal we can get, and it won't have the copy protection problem. A lot of cards can take S-video signal, but S only good for 480i/480p. 1080i and 720p are about 3 times more information then 480p and anyone can tell the differences between 1080i RGB input and 480p S-video while using HD signal.

I don't know the capture format on that IEEE output is because of the software it use or that hardware limitation. But as far as I know, IEEE 1394 doesn't limit what kind of resolution you can use. I'm sure there will be RGB capture cards in the near future within acceptable price range. I won't count on DVI or any other digital output because tighten copy protection in the future.
View user's profile Send private message
Re: Video Input Adapters
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:57 am Reply with quote
pdicamillo
 
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 68
Location: Needham, MA




kzj890 wrote:
The reason to use component/RGB/VGA signal as the input, in my view, is because it's the highest possible analog signal we can get, and it won't have the copy protection problem. A lot of cards can take S-video signal, but S only good for 480i/480p. 1080i and 720p are about 3 times more information then 480p and anyone can tell the differences between 1080i RGB input and 480p S-video while using HD signal.


Yes, I think the box has the component inputs to get the highest quality, but I'm pretty sure it's still limited to an input of 480i and maybe 480p for encoding to DV.

kzj890 wrote:
I don't know the capture format on that IEEE output is because of the software it use or that hardware limitation. But as far as I know, IEEE 1394 doesn't limit what kind of resolution you can use.


The box is encoding to the DV standard over IEEE 1394. The specs include "Capture in DV video format." It's the DV standard that specifies 720 x 480. It's the same standard commonly used by camcorders. There is different standard for HD over IEEE 1394 called DVCPRO HD.
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:40 pm Reply with quote
Spinoza
 
Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 27




Scott Larson wrote:
The first thing I noticed with HDTV is that my local stations had been broadcasting it for years and no one I knew had any idea it even existed. So many people, high tech people even, are horribly misinformed. The worst case...

I cringed when I heard a coworker bragging about a huge expensive NTSC set he had bought. I asked if he had considered buying an HDTV set. He thought that they're only good for watching DVD's -- HDTV broadcasting won't happen until the 22nd century. He thought that widescreen DVD's were the only thing in HDTV these days.

I asked him if he had seen the "In HDTV where available" banners on TV shows. He sure had seen them, but since the shows weren't letterboxed, he assumed that meant that HDTV wasn't available here.

"No it's in HDTV on a different channel. NBC-HD is UHF channel 46 here. KGW broadcasts it right over the air for free." I told him I could pick it up with a bow-tie antenna, yes just like the one that came with his TV set.

The next day he told me he saw the "In HDTV where available" banner at the beginning of "Law and Order" last evening, so he quickly hooked up the UHF bow-tie antenna and tuned his big new TV set to channel 46. He was expecting to see a letterboxed version of "Law and Order" but didn't see anything at all. Obviously HDTV isn't available here. Probably won't be for a long time. He's happy with his big TV set and the black bars don't bother him at all when he watches his high definition DVD's.

OK I don't want to talk about this any more... Sad


Scott.. First of all. You're a cool guy. You almost seem old school... almost..

Now, if the above quote was meant to be joke, forgive me... if it wasn't, forgive as well. You say this guy bought a big NTSC TV?... So why would you tell him to go hook up an antenna to it and try to pull in a HDTV( ATSC ) station? Did he have a settop box, over the air tuner and decoder? Also, DVDs are _not_ HD, DVDs are standard NTSC, just sometimes in wide screen format. HD-DVD will be here soon. 1080i holds nearly 4 times the picture detail of a standard DVD stream.

_________________
-vito
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:55 am Reply with quote
Scott Larson
 
Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 713
Location: Portland, OR




Spinoza wrote:
Now, if the above quote was meant to be joke, forgive me... if it wasn't, forgive as well. You say this guy bought a big NTSC TV?... So why would you tell him to go hook up an antenna to it and try to pull in a HDTV( ATSC ) station?


I didn't... exactly. I got him completely confused about DTV. He assumed that a brand new expensive television would naturally be compatible with the latest digital TV broadcasts and he assumed it was just a matter of hooking up a UHF antenna to his set. He understands that the signals are digital and his TV set isn't. I don't think he understands what HDTV is yet.

There's so much change going on in TV broadcasting and hardly anyone knows anything about it even after shopping for a new TV set.
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:48 pm Reply with quote
kb7oeb
 
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 32




I have heard of a program that lets a windows computer emulate a DVHS vcr, i think its called 169time. I have also read that cable companies are required to have firewire STBs available. I don't know if this program works with copy protected streams but it might be the easiest way to get HD from cable. From what I have read the FCC said that cable can't limit OTA broadcast though that might still require encryption with the broadcast flag and all that.
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Cable HDTV
  pcHDTV Forum Index -> General pcHDTV topics
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
All times are GMT - 7 Hours  
Page 1 of 1  

  
  
 Post new topic  This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.  


Powered by phpBB © 2001-2003 phpBB Group
Theme created by Vjacheslav Trushkin