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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:19 am Reply with quote
xyzzy
 
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 225




mikek wrote:

Last weekend, I had a friend bring by his HDTV reciver, connected it to my antenna, and 45 came in sharp, about what you'd expect with the transmitter LOS and 3mi away!

Did you ever say you had any reason to believe that you should be able to get reception on channel 45? No, you didn't. I've seen a lot of people who have a problem getting a signal with their digital tv cards, all models and all countries. The #1 cause of a DVB card reporting that it isn't getting a signal, is that the DVB card isn't getting a signal. Seems obvious, but reception, antenna, cable, connector, splitter, etc. problems, or looking on the wrong frequency, are by far the most common. No one said they had tried both connectors or that they knew they could get a signal with some other hardware, so it's a reasonable idea for me to put forward. You have no call to bite my head off for it. It's not like I owe you anything.

pcHDTV's tech support has an email address. If you want to complain to someone who you paid money too, send them an email. Maybe they'll replace your card.
mikek wrote:

I've already gone to driver source code and figured the reciever had no lock (check my previous post).

Which post was that?
This one?
mikek wrote:

Do you know an integer representation of a fixed point decimal, an error value, or is it reporting my SNR at 203?

Or this one?
mikek wrote:

I really don't know how to interprate this. I'm assuming snr is at an error value, unless its some kind of fixed decimal type, and I have no idea what the status values mean.

Is the post where you say you have no idea what the status values mean the post where you say you knew that it meant you weren't getting a lock?

mikek wrote:

Sure I can get the data sheet and go through every register on the or51211 and become one of the "select few" with detailed technical knowledge of this hunk-o-poo

"Select one" I think. The real datasheet isn't available and I don't think anyone has detailed technical knowledge of how the hunk-o-poo works. Probably why it doesn't work all that well.

mikek wrote:

Here's my $200.00 worth of speculation: Maybe the problem is pcHDTV's support? Maybe pcHDTV is ripping people off under the guise of being part of the "Linux Community"? Maybe pcHDTV is no more part of the "Linux community" than Hauppauge, ATI, Avermedia, Pinnacle or any other "for profit" companies that have provided enough information to the "Linux Community" to get a driver written?

The original HD-2000 and HD-3000 drivers were written by pcHDTV. When the HD-2000 came out, there were very few (few as is none) ATSC cards that worked under Linux. Most of the those drivers aren't written by specifications made available to the linux community. Usually it's via reverse engineering. Sometimes they'll provide specs under NDA. I don't know of any ATSC demodulator with real specs you can download.
Quote:
Maybe the HD-2000 doesn't even work with the DVB drivers? Or maybe my HD-2000 is just hosed?

Normally cards with no moving parts don't "go bad", but I've seen reports of tuners that appeared to do so. Your HD-2000 might well be busted. Most of the DVB developers don't live in ATSC countries. The HD-2000 is an old ATSC card. The DVB drivers are in a state of flux. HD-2000 support in the DVB drivers may well be broken. It wouldn't be the only driver to get broken, not by a long shot.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:51 am Reply with quote
KenA
 
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 30
Location: LI, NY




Well, even though I can swear I've tried it in the past, I tried switching inputs again and now I'm getting a signal on a few of my channels. Next step is to try MythTV.

Thanks for the help!
ken

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:32 am Reply with quote
KenA
 
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 30
Location: LI, NY




Okay, not ready for MythTV just yet. I'm now getting a signal when running dtvsignal -dvb 0 <channel>, but dtvscan -dvb 0 is hanging when it gets to a channel with a signal:
Code:

[root@mythtv ~] dtvscan -dvb 0 > channels.txt
dtvscan ver 1.03 - by Jack Kelliher (c) 2002,2005,2006
channel = 2
channel = 3
channel = 4
..snip..
channel = 22
Signal: 81
look for sync

It just hangs at that point. If I try an strace of the process in another window, it will continue. Output of the strace is:
Code:

Process 4518 attached - interrupt to quit
ioctl(4, 0x6f2a, 0)                     = 0
fstat64(1, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=0, ...}) = 0
mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0xb7feb000
ioctl(3, 0x40246f4c, 0xbfde92fc)        = 0
write(2, "channel = 23\n", 13)          = 13
ioctl(3, 0x80046f45, 0xbfde9344)        = 0
ioctl(3, 0x80046f45, 0xbfde9344)        = 0
ioctl(3, 0x80046f45, 0xbfde9344)        = 0
ioctl(3, 0x80046f45 <unfinished ...>
Process 4518 detached

This is after hitting CTRL-C in the strace.

The channels.txt file looks like this (after strace-ing and cancelling every time it hangs):
Code:

      :      :22.1 :22: 2:1
      :      :28.1 :28: 2:1
      :      :33.1 :33: 2:1
      :      :38.1 :38: 2:1
      :      :40.1 :40: 2:1
      :      :44.1 :44: 2:1
      :      :45.1 :45: 2:1
      :      :53.1 :53: 2:1
      :      :56.1 :56: 2:1
      :      :61.1 :61: 2:1

Any ideas?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:14 am Reply with quote
mikek
 
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 16




xyzzy wrote:

Did you ever say you had any reason to believe....


This is exactly my complaint. I really don't feel like going tit for tat with somone who's getting paid in ego points when I have a problem with hardware I paid $200.00 for. This isn't personal, I'm not trying to get into a flame war, and like I said if I paid $45 or less for this card it would be fun to figure it out. I just don't think I have to deal with condecending speculation when I paid top dollar for a card advertised to work with linux.

I don't think my expectations are out of line...

xyzzy wrote:

pcHDTV's tech support has an email address. If you want to complain to someone who you paid money too, send them an email. Maybe they'll replace your card.


I sent them an e-mail weeks ago, and got no response. Why do you think I'm so pissed?

This is pcHDTV's website. You get here by clicking the "support" link on thier home page. Unfortunatly, this forum IS pcHDTV's support. And most of us paid full retail to be part of their support/test team.

I don't really like it.

xyzzy wrote:

Normally cards with no moving parts don't "go bad".


First, my card didn't "go bad", it never worked.

Second, your statement is wholly incorrect. There are several reason why a card with no moving parts can "go bad": ESD, cold solder, temperature stress, operating outside voltage specs, FOD, vibration, and the list goes on.

Some of this has to do with poor manufacturing processes and quality control, some has to do with the system integration, some has to do with user misuse. Since my card never worked, and my 3 and 1/2 year old system isn't (and hasn't been) blowing any other cards, my bet is poor manufacturing process and QC.

Yes, I'm saying pcHDTV sent me a bum card.

xyzzy wrote:

It wouldn't be the only driver to get broken, not by a long shot.


Yea, I know quite well. But the hardware manufactures for those drivers do not claim support for linux. When a hardware manufacture starts advertising support for linux, in this case solely for linux, then that becomes a different story. At that point thier failure to support becomes more of a matter of business ethics than business strategy.

And so you've got to wonder, to pcHDTV is that a penguin or a lemming they have on their cards?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:20 am Reply with quote
mikek
 
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 16




KenA wrote:
Well, even though I can swear I've tried it in the past, I tried switching inputs again and now I'm getting a signal on a few of my channels. Next step is to try MythTV.

Thanks for the help!
ken


Nice!

Glad you're up and running. It's good to know that at least one of the DVB drivers work. What version kernel are you running?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:54 am Reply with quote
KenA
 
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 30
Location: LI, NY




mikek wrote:

Nice!

Glad you're up and running. It's good to know that at least one of the DVB drivers work. What version kernel are you running?

I'm running FC5 with kernel 2.6.16-1.2122_FC5smp. I still haven't been able to scan correctly or even tried capturing, so I'm not over the hump yet. I'm happy that I'm finally getting a signal, though!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:16 pm Reply with quote
xyzzy
 
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 225




mikek wrote:

This is exactly my complaint. I really don't feel like going tit for tat with somone who's getting paid in ego points when I have a problem with hardware I paid $200.00 for. This isn't personal, I'm not trying to get into a flame war, and like I said if I paid $45 or less for this card it would be fun to figure it out. I just don't think I have to deal with condecending speculation when I paid top dollar for a card advertised to work with linux.

Maybe they didn't respond because you were as rude to them are you are to me? Why don't you just go yell at a random person on the street about how your tv card doesn't work?

It turns out my "condecending speculation" was right on the money for someone. I didn't make those speculations becuase it some bonehead mistake that no one would ever made. I did because it's the #1 source of problems. Go anywhere and ask for linux help with a digital tv card and the first thing you'll get asked after verifying the drivers are loaded correctly is, "how do you know you should be geting a signal?"
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:59 pm Reply with quote
mikek
 
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 16




xyzzy wrote:
Maybe they didn't respond because you were as rude to them are you are to me?


Sorry I didn't mean to be rude.

In my email was quite cordial to them, explaind the problem, explained the steps I went through to troubleshoot, and got no response.


Last edited by mikek on Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:06 pm Reply with quote
KenA
 
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 30
Location: LI, NY




Are you guys hijacking my thread to trade barbs? You've both been extremely helpful and I have now gotten further than I ever had over the past two years. Can we please keep this discussion productive?

I'm still trying to scan the available channels so I can create a channels.conf file and actually view HDTV on this thing.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:25 pm Reply with quote
mikek
 
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 16




KenA wrote:
Are you guys hijacking my thread to trade barbs? You've both been extremely helpful and I have now gotten further than I ever had over the past two years. Can we please keep this discussion productive?

I'm still trying to scan the available channels so I can create a channels.conf file and actually view HDTV on this thing.



Sorry, your absolutly right. The purpose here is to get these cards working.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:17 pm Reply with quote
pcHDTV_tech
 
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 295




My next suggestion was to try xyzzy's astcscan program to see if it can lock to anything but I see he posted a link to that already. Have either of you (KenA or mikek) tried it? It is definitely a more robust debugging tool for when things go wrong than the pcHDTV tools.

Also, have you tried tuning in NTSC using tvtime, or some other V4L std TV program? That could tell you if your tuner is shot. To the best of my knowledge the DVB drivers are still working. Have you tried the latest stable release from linuxtv.org?

You'll forgive me if I ask a question I've already asked before but it is hard to keep track of "who" has told you "what", "when" and "where" about their debugging steps.

Rusty
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:10 pm Reply with quote
KenA
 
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 30
Location: LI, NY




pcHDTV_tech wrote:
My next suggestion was to try xyzzy's astcscan program to see if it can lock to anything but I see he posted a link to that already. Have either of you (KenA or mikek) tried it? It is definitely a more robust debugging tool for when things go wrong than the pcHDTV tools.

Also, have you tried tuning in NTSC using tvtime, or some other V4L std TV program? That could tell you if your tuner is shot. To the best of my knowledge the DVB drivers are still working. Have you tried the latest stable release from linuxtv.org?

You'll forgive me if I ask a question I've already asked before but it is hard to keep track of "who" has told you "what", "when" and "where" about their debugging steps.

Rusty

I've tried the atscscan already. I've been chatting with xyzzy (Trent) in another thread.
Code:

[root@mythtv ~]# ./atscscan -o -a -d 0 21 69
atscscan V1.3 Copyright (C) 2006 Trent Piepho <xyzzy@speakeasy.org>
Linux DVB based ATSC OTA/Cable channel scanning tool
Using DVB adapter #0
Outputting azap channels.conf format
Using OTA US Broadcast frequencies w/ 8-VSB
Tuning to channel 21 (515.0000 MHz): ######## Unable to tune channel
Tuning to channel 22 (521.0000 MHz): # LOCK Strength = 24.9%
FE_GET_FRONTEND: Operation not supported
done reading packet
Short read of TS packet, got 0 bytes
done reading packet
Short read of TS packet, got 0 bytes
done reading packet
Short read of TS packet, got 0 bytes
done reading packet
Short read of TS packet, got 0 bytes
done reading packet
Short read of TS packet, got 0 bytes
done reading packet
Short read of TS packet, got 0 bytes
done reading packet
..snip..

The last two lines just keep repeating. I'll try tvtime if you point me to a good step-by-step how-to.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:57 pm Reply with quote
pcHDTV_tech
 
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 295




I don't know if it qualifies as a good step-by-step guide but on my FC5 installation here I did:
Code:
> yum install tvtime

I have the default repositories that come with FC5 and the livna repo added. If you don't have the livna repo you can do
Code:
> rpm -ivh http://rpm.livna.org/livna-release-5.rpm

(I don't know if it's necessary but its a good one to have if you are doing video stuff)
and then do the yum install tvtime.

Then I just run
Code:
> tvtime &
The arrow keys change channels, and a right click on the screen give a menu to setup parameters like a tv. You want to make sure you are set to
Input Configuration->Television Standard->NTSC
Channel Management->ChangeFrequency Table->Broadcast
(or cable depending on your standard TV reception)

Remember though, tvtime is just plain ol' NTSC tv, but it will let you know if your tuner is working.

Hope this helps,

Rusty

p.s. The NTSC driver for the HD2000 is the bttv module, make sure it's loaded.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:14 pm Reply with quote
mikek
 
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 16




pcHDTV_tech wrote:
My next suggestion was to try xyzzy's astcscan program to see if it can lock to anything but I see he posted a link to that already. Have either of you (KenA or mikek) tried it? It is definitely a more robust debugging tool for when things go wrong than the pcHDTV tools.

Yes. Got something weird. The first time I ran it, it showed that I had a 63% lock on an NTSC station - station 38. Naturally, it couldn't get beyond that. It didn't happen again, so perhaps its an atscscan bug, perhaps a problem with how the HD-2000 is reporting back on the I2C bus (it does seem broke).


I tried again several times several ways (switched inputs, reloaded driver, reboot machine) and got this for all stations (with the appropriate channel/freq):
Code:

Tuning to channel 38 (617.0000 MHz): ######## Unable to tune channel




pcHDTV_tech wrote:

Also, have you tried tuning in NTSC using tvtime, or some other V4L std TV program? That could tell you if your tuner is shot.

Just tried it....

As a source, I used a VCR broadcasting a video on Ch 3 - just to elimated the question.

Once again, tried to get an image several ways (switched inputs, reloaded driver, reboot machine) but just got a blue screen with "No signal" message on channel 3.

I then ran tvtime-scanner, which seems to be a great tool to check for signal, as it scans over 250kHz segments. I ran it over 44HMz to 70MHz, so that it would cover through channel 3. Still no dice:
Code:

vide@videodrome:~$ tvtime-scanner -d /dev/video1
Reading configuration from /etc/tvtime/tvtime.xml
Reading configuration from /home/vide/.tvtime/tvtime.xml
Scanning using TV standard NTSC.
/home/vide/.tvtime/stationlist.xml: No existing NTSC station list "Custom".
Scanning from  44.00 MHz to 958.00 MHz.
Checking  70.25 MHz:  - No signal

If this is the test for a bad tuner, then I'd say I have a bad tuner.

pcHDTV_tech wrote:

To the best of my knowledge the DVB drivers are still working. Have you tried the latest stable release from linuxtv.org?

I'm using the drivers included in the 2.6.15 kernel:
Code:

videodrome:/home/vide# modinfo dvb-bt8xx
filename:       /lib/modules/2.6.15/kernel/drivers/media/dvb/bt8xx/dvb-bt8xx.ko
description:    Bt8xx based DVB adapter driver
author:         Florian Schirmer <jolt@tuxbox.org>
license:        GPL
vermagic:       2.6.15 K7 gcc-4.0
depends:        bttv,dvb-core,nxt6000,or51211,dst_ca,dst,sp887x,lgdt330x,cx24110,mt352,dvb-pll,firmware_class,i2c-core,bt878
parm:           debug:Turn on/off debugging (default:off). (int)


This has been reported to work:

http://www.pchdtv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1108&sid=fc2bf75c543418ff9850a0c4cb478b7f

Thanks for these suggestions, they were very helpful.

Summary:
1. Strange behavior with atscscan.
2. Inability to recieve an NTSC signal generated by a VCR.
3. Solid OTA ATSC on different reciever, same loc and antenna.
4. Known working version of the DVB, that loads and talks to the card correctly.

I think my card is hosed.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:09 am Reply with quote
KenA
 
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 30
Location: LI, NY




pcHDTV_tech wrote:
I don't know if it qualifies as a good step-by-step guide but on my FC5 installation here I did:
Code:
> yum install tvtime

I have the default repositories that come with FC5 and the livna repo added. If you don't have the livna repo you can do
Code:
> rpm -ivh http://rpm.livna.org/livna-release-5.rpm

(I don't know if it's necessary but its a good one to have if you are doing video stuff)
and then do the yum install tvtime.

Then I just run
Code:
> tvtime &
The arrow keys change channels, and a right click on the screen give a menu to setup parameters like a tv. You want to make sure you are set to
Input Configuration->Television Standard->NTSC
Channel Management->ChangeFrequency Table->Broadcast
(or cable depending on your standard TV reception)

Remember though, tvtime is just plain ol' NTSC tv, but it will let you know if your tuner is working.

Hope this helps,

Rusty

p.s. The NTSC driver for the HD2000 is the bttv module, make sure it's loaded.

I have tvtime installed, but I can't get it to run:
Code:
[root@mythtv ~]# tvtime
Running tvtime 1.0.1.
Reading configuration from /etc/tvtime/tvtime.xml
Reading configuration from /root/.tvtime/tvtime.xml
xvoutput: No XVIDEO port found which supports YUY2 images.

*** tvtime requires hardware YUY2 overlay support from your video card
*** driver.  If you are using an older NVIDIA card (TNT2), then
*** this capability is only available with their binary drivers.
*** For some ATI cards, this feature may be found in the experimental
*** GATOS drivers: http://gatos.souceforge.net/
*** If unsure, please check with your distribution to see if your
*** X driver supports hardware overlay surfaces.

I have an on-board ATI-Radeon XPRESS 200. The fglrx driver is installed and ruinning and I can run most programs. I'm not too worried about graphics because this will be a dedicated Myth backend. Any other way to test the tuner?

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